FFP what supercharger Vortech or ATI???

[Zach]

FFP, I e-mailed you guys about my 2001 SS needing a supercharger and I was thinking Vortech but with the hood cutting and the oil pan tap and other PITA things I was thinking ATI, wondering what you think? Horsepower and Torque about the same? Reliability?

[Zach]

maybe the FFP ATI Stage 1 F-body Tuner Kit?

[Camaro_SS/R]

That's actually pretty good. Keith is very consistent and I have seen it on other cars too, where with that kind of package you will see at least 460rwhp on a purely stock LS1! So if you have other mods like LT and exhaust you will end up with even more power.

The price of the package is not bad at all. I like it that you get a fully installed and tuned system at the end from FFP. I have seen so many people installing a supercharger and end up not tuning or can't get it tune and blow something up.

Also the price of the Vortech kit with aftercooler is already $6000-6500 from Tbryne.
http://www.tbyrnemotorsports.com/ls1catalog.html
Interestingly Keith's price on this is only $5350, so much lower?!

I have only used Vortech, but the price of the D1SC from FFP is hard to ignore.

Sorry I don't really have anything specific to say but just some of my opinions.


good luck

[LS1 Bird]

I was going to say pretty much what Hugh just said. I don't think either is a bad kit, so you'll just have to find what fits your needs best. I personally like the D-1SC, so that's where I put my money.

Mike M

[Zach]

yeah I'm leaning toward the ATI now because of the less intrusive install, no moving power steering resivoir, no traction control module relocation, no tapping of the oil pan, and no hood cutting, also no water pump to go out or lose prime. LS-1Bird what about a new clutch, or is the original strong enough for street use?

[jsprat123]

You should also be looking into buying a new rear end and should invest in some nitto drag radials.

[LS1 Bird]

Zach, I still have my stock clutch - now with 17,000 miles on it. It will hold for short durations and some aggressive driving, but it will go soft if you stay in the throttle for several runs right after one another.

It's marginal, and I know if I really want to take advantage of the power I need a better clutch and rearend like jsprat mentioned.

But for fun around the streets, me and my new Nittos are doing pretty well with the supercharger power. I just don't try any high-rev launches.

It doesn't really matter anyway, I can usually make up anything I lose at the line once I get rolling good.

Notice I didn't say catch everything - no matter what you spend, or what you do, there is always someone out there that can make you look silly from time to time.

And yes, all legit racing should occur at the track, not the streets. (I had to say it so you didn't get the wrong impression
;) )

Mike M

[Zach]

Hey Mike, do the stock fans need to come out fot the ATI, and is that why FFP sells the fan kit. Not good to run without the fans I supose huh?

[LS1 Bird]

Zach, the stock fans won't work with the ATI - there isn't sufficient clearance, and they'll hit the unit itself.

ATI ships a single fan that some people have good luck with. The dual SPAL set-up that FFP customizes is for people that don't want to take any chances with overeating, or one fan going out at the worst time.

And no, you don't want to run without fans. You'll just spend all your time parked alongside the road waiting for your coolant to stop boiling. Supercharged engines demand more of the cooling and fan systems, that's why I wanted the dual SPALs that can move upwards of 2800 cfm of air.

Some people even replace radiators, but I didn't go that far. And in the 100+ east bay temps, my car has never ran hotter than 189 degrees or so. (Yes, my tuning turns my fans on earlier than stock, and I also have a manual switch that does high/low as well).

Mike M

[Zach]

Mike, do you know anything about the new upgrade that you can get with the ATI, for 75$ you get a different fan then the one that normally comes. I spoke to Keith today at FFP and he told me about it. Sounds like it maybe sufficient. I think I'm gonna have them install the Stage 1 Kit, some gauges, and a McLoed Twin.

[Zach]

McLeod or Spec Stage III clutch.......anybody?

[Camaro_SS/R]

I have the Spec stage 3 carbon, but if I have to do it over, I would probably do the McLeod Street Twin from the get go. After the ST, you won't have to worry about it anymore.

--Hugh

[Zach]

how about pedal feel on McLeod ST, Ram 910, and Spec Stage III?

[Camaro_SS/R]

For the Spec Stage 3 carbon clutch with hi-po aluminum flywheel,

The pedal feels pretty stocky or normal to me. But this is with someone who have driven agressive clutches for six years.

The new design doesn't chatter much after breaking in for 2500 miles, but reverse is still kinda chattery after almost 4000 miles.

[LS1 Bird]

Zach, I don't know anything about that upgrade from ATI. I love the set-up I have, so I'll be keeping it unless it gives me trouble down the line.

Clutch - yes. I'm still running my stocker, and I've noticed that since the Nittos were installed, the stock clutch seems pretty unhappy about it....

Mike M

[Zach]

Mike, if you get a new one, which would ya get?

[LS1 Bird]

No idea - haven't given it any thought. I don't replace parts until they break.... If the stock clutch is good for 20K, I'm gonna keep it. If the rear-end holds for 20K, I'm gonna keep it.

Post your message about clutches in the tech section that deals with that. You'll get more views/opinions than you'll get in the FI section.

Mike M

[Zach]

I'm just trying to get a feel for whether or not it's worth it right now and it sounds like our cars will be quite similar as far as engine goes, it sound like you are doing fine with the stocker, and I don't think I'll ever run anything but street tires. It's a tough call.....lots of dough! :confused:

[00TransAmWs6]

heres unfinished pros and cons
That Might help
after looking over the facts yourself
you might reconsider the taste everyone has for ATI's
Radiator hose type blowers.


ATI vs. Vortech
Pros & Cons

CAR:
LS1 F-body Stock form w/manual transmission

NOTE: Some cars will perform better than others.
*different years came with bigger cams
*The fact that no car ever comes out the same

Kits:
Vortech V-9 G-Trim & Aftercooler 8-9psi (air to Water)
ATI HO Intercooled (tuner kit 8+psi) (Air to Air)



Vortech PROS

note: You wont see any actual
results from ram air models on the dyno.
Unless immitate air velocity @ given
MPH + Air temp (ramair not used on ATI's system)

Advertised Hp is Correct
448hp / 449ft/lbs non ram air
470hp / 462ft/lbs ram air
Actual Dyno on a Stock 99
trans am noRamair
464hp / 456ft/lbs
well beyond advertised hp no/ramair

Ram-air models could see more HP
gains either on the Street or dyno'd
with a very larger fan that could produce
alot of freeway like Pressure(cold air
would be key to help keep a
cooler charger for more power)
----------------------------------------------
Aperrance of the Vortech is
much nicer (even the satin finish)
-----------------------------------------------
All vortech systems have been
passed by CARB to pass smog
for 97-02 car and trucks including
LS1 as of DEC. 4, 02
CARB # D-213-19
-----------------------------------------------
Air travel is alot shorter in distance
around 3feet from Airbox to head unit
to aftercooler to TB
-----------------------------------------------
Air-To-Water-To-Air Cooling
for maxium cooling in any climate
condition (can include ICE for all out
drag race performnce & max cooling,
better cooling at lower rpm's)
------------------------------------------------
v-9 G-trim has a 72% effiency
@ 65,000rpm
Good minicher blower designed for a
compact fit. only about 3/4 of a foot big
SQ-technology (near-silent)
--------------------------------------------------
Carries and meets SAE Std.
---------------------------------------------------
non-self containing OIL for better lubrication
and cooling of blower. (uses engine motor oil by oil
feed lines)
-------------------------------------------------
uses Heat Resistant Silicon Sleeves
(for connecting metal ducting)
-----------------------------------------------------
Upgradable to a bigger more power blower
for future plans or modified motors
(T-Trim) about $500 more
---------------------------------------------------
Vortech Kits- Air ducting is metal vs. ATI's
cheaper rubber air ducting
-----------------------------------------------
Manitance is much easier
-----------------------------------------------
Carries a 3 year warranty

Vortech CONS

Having to tap the Oil Pan
for supercharger oil drain
------------------------------------
Air-To-Water-To-Air
(refill with ice)
ment for drag race use
but can be just as efficient
as air-to-air (with the use of no ice)
the use of (ICE) will put it far beyond
air-to-air cooling
-----------------------------------

[LS1 Bird]

00Trans, I see the Vortech marketing campaign is really stepping itself up these days. Must get tired of loosing all the real racer business to ATI ;) I wonder why that is.....:confused:

Mike M

[Zach]

I'm sure I'll get all I need from the ATI and it's radiator hoses.;)

[00TransAmWs6]

i'm not trying to put down on ATI
just throwing out some info i found
as far i can see there both good systems
regardless of each of there flaws. they both seem to equal out

[LS1 Bird]

I agree with 00Trans - they are both good kits, and each has its pros and cons. I could have gone either way, but I ended up with the ATI based on two things >>

1. It simply has the capability to make more power, and to do it with less strain on the blower itself.

2. After three months of research, I found three guys that had Vortechs and were going through the time and expense of putting ATI's on instead. I couldn't find a single ATI person that was wishing to take it off and put on the Vortech.

My biggest beef with the ATI was that I didn't like the hoses. But with a little elbow grease and creativity, you can make an ATI look pretty good. The Vortech is a head turner, no argument about that one.

Neither is a bad choice. But for me, it was ATI. But blown is cool regardless of who is doing the blowing (please don't take that out of context!)

Mike M

[Zach]

My #1 reason for going ATI is ease of installation, on my SS the hood needed to be cut up pretty bad(could have got aftermarket....more$$) the power steering res. needed to be moved, and since I won't be at the track that much(air to air vs. water) I liked the simplicity of the Intercoolers. Items like price, upgradeability, and power all played roles as well.......lots of research, time, and money going into this, want to make sure it's right. ;)